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lecture about  (07/10/14 05:46:25) Reply
    Several days to come, I will have to have a lecture about Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451".

    You wouldn't be able to point me to some background literature I don't know yet, do you?
gs

fix the zoom Montag (07/10/14 19:51:12) Reply
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/2ete7m/its_super_ironic_to_read_fahrenheit_451_on_a/

    http://boingboing.net/2013/10/08/self-immolating-edition-of-fah.html

    http://io9.com/5988144/limited-edition-of-fahrenheit-451-was-bound-in-asbestos-so-it-wouldnt-burn

    http://mutantreviewers.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/fahrenheit-451-5.jpg

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1QiKyYjMzqw/U4zUxy6j6RI/AAAAAAAAAEM/uisR7a1EUPg/s1600/Fahrenheit+451.png

    and now today:

    http://www.sony.net/Products/products-for-life-space/

    Sorry there isn't much I found in a cursory search.

    I might say something like: "Fahrenheit 451" The book speaks for itself.

    Which book would you be GS?
forseti

also (07/10/14 21:01:22) Reply
    Looking at the search results, I think there is a strange attitude to censorship, book burning and thoughtcrime these days. a cynicism that pervades, a snarky disposition. ( I dislike the word "Snarky", but what can one do. )

    There is of course always the undercurrent of disbelief that has arisen to censorship in past and present times. But, there is also an detectable current of nonchalance and que sera sera in the deep cynicism of internet cultures that rises to the surface on perusing their postings.

    I think that books do not matter nearly so much to many many people these days, as long as there's a movie of it, or maybe just a snippit of a review on some blog. (Another horrible word, Blog, like something a long lost great uncle died of when no one spoke of such things. )

    There is, in the mb archives a link to a paper written back in the ancient 1990's about the destructive nature of digital information storage. That all von neumann machine data sets are inherently destructive to the information therein. I think there is quite something to this idea. As information exists only in electrons stored on some substrate, inaccessible to the naked eye, it is effectively lost already.

    Here's another twist on the theme of impermanence. Will google books remember each book faithfully as in F451? Or will the AI create something never before seen as the original disappears down the memory hole forever.

    ---

    If it matters at all, I've bought a photo printer, the Canon Pixma Pro 1. It's quite remarkable, I'm glad I waited til they have got something so close to perfection for home use. So far I've run off about 200 prints. They are breathtaking. And Real, in addition to just some magnetic anomalies on paired spinning platters.


    of course there is also this now:

    http://www.duggal.com/solutions/photographic-printing-services/digital-photo-printing/

    6100 DPI on silver halide paper exposed with lasers.

    So, make it real, says I. You never know who or what will try to change it.
Forseti

to be 17 and crazy... (08/10/14 10:16:42) Reply
    sadly, now im just crazy.
    anyway, i would greatly appreciate if you would share some of your thoughts and/or notes on the lecture itself.
    im curious as to what end the lecture will [miss]use the book (as so many others have done before)

    as for background literature, i think people that messed with his work or interpret him more often come off as fools. (and i may be one here too)
    i think that it would be preferable to read the man himself than anything else.
    the 1979+1982 afterwords are usually in all the late editions and translations, at least in the ones i have. would love to own a crumbling first edition though.
    from wikipedia: Bradbury has supplemented the novel with various front and back matter, including a 1979 coda,[43] a 1982 afterword,[44] a 1993 foreword, and several introductions. In these he provides some commentary on the themes of the novel,[43] thoughts on the movie adaptation, and numerous personal anecdotes related to the writing and development.[citation needed]

    [http://www.american-buddha.com/fahren-ray.toc.htm]
    http://www.american-buddha.com/fahren-ray.5.htm - 1974
    http://www.american-buddha.com/fahren-ray.4.htm - 1982
    2 page introduction http://www.tor.com/stories/2009/09/fahrenheit-451-part-1?page=1&panel=1#comic

    these should be the guides by which to read the book imo. a few others out there too.

    [media fluff]
    http://www.laweekly.com/2007-05-31/news/ray-bradbury-fahrenheit-451-misinterpreted/
    http://www.laweekly.com/informer/2012/06/06/ray-bradbury-rip-fahrenheit-451-is-still-misinterpreted-we-not-government-are-enslaving-ourselves

    at first they condensed the books, stripping out more and more offending passages until ultimately all that remained were footnotes, which hardly anyone read - source? ;)

    much more to say here but i would probably just rehash stuff you already know and which the man said himself quite clearly.
    i do believe however that most people focus on all the wrong parts of the book missing the overall point.
    for example (one of many) i always find that people miss the much broader point of why ray chose montag to memorize ecclesiastes.

    ps.
    just to poke a little. and since its in the context of the 1979 coda, do you still call iran persia? ;)
jm

Re: to be 17 and crazy... (09/10/14 23:47:31) Reply
    I was 17.

    Didn't know what it meant to be crazy
    I grew up a bit.
    Didn't help much.
    I only learned.
    A little bit.

    Now I'm 17 and I'm crazy.
    My mum and dad just won't understand me.
    I got my own things going on.
    But they don't know...

    I'm 17 and I'm crazy.
    it's better than being 48 and who needs it
    Low on life
    Just another who knows and maybe...

    Jm, out of the three dozen people that ever read this shit, and the three that ever understand it, why, my brother, oh why, bother?

    Pissing in the wind.
illbran

the Believer / Nobody Laughs (13/10/14 18:01:55) Reply
    Having been talked with many creatures, and the People, in the empty room, myself...

    Don't let it settle.

    Easily.

    Anyway.

    Who would have said

    me's...

    was...

    the Cunt.

    Unlike anybody in my Cupboard.

    Like noone in the Family...

    There's no tolls around

    but mine.

    Its all OK.

    (for me).

    Like then.

    Please, just don't let it...

    :)
Sister Yael

Re: the Believer / Nobody Laughs... for Yael... (16/10/14 00:57:24) Reply
    I was just about to say goodbye:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohXI3po8hK0

    but then I find a post from you, little sister.

    (Still trying to get that Cd you sent me to work, eh eh)

    So maybe I'll hang on a bit.

    I've found that over a decade of internet and forum use has amounted to nill.

    No one cares. And that is ok.


    Recently, I've been laid low. My brother has a very bad cancer. I love him like i love life itself. I would honestly, truly, give my life for his. I am scared of dying. But I would still give my life for my little brother.

    ( post modified here by me, dom, if you want to talk about that, dear Illbran, please contact me, if you lost my real-name account, please use maldoro and live.de)

    I'm sorry that i drink too much sometimes that i can't think straight or coordinate a coherent argument. My bad.


    I have so much to say, but no time to say it.

    Sweet little butterfly and sweet little Ira, I do consider you.

    Reconsider me:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTCEgHdnjjM
illbran

noticed this only now (16/10/14 17:49:33) Reply
    I (have) had very very hard time understanding your posts, even this one...

    But she was not sure at all of who You are...

    she didn't "threaten" You. no way. no. way.

    she was just shitting *around*, out of fear, remember

    again, she didn't fucking understand almost anything!

    but police :)

    much tooo enigmatic for ... a savage like me, as you yourself should at least be aware of...

    but shes ever felt, the right person, you, would ever consider that unattended white bite to be just "between mates", just a fucking misunderstanding between...!

    Anyway, my sincere appologies to You!

    What only matters is, You as well as Your little Brother (??; Sorry, but iam really not sure about real meaning of this!!) have all the Mercy i can give!

    Goodbye.
Yael

Really unbelievable.... (16/10/14 18:36:08) Reply
    Hey Yael

    Or whoever you are

    R e c o n s i d e r me, will you?

    And

    Just fuck off, you bitch!
Illbran

ah, good ole napalm and silly putty... (16/10/14 20:36:13) Reply
    my curiosity was satisfied six or seven posts ago

    clickety-clickety-click

    i thank you (again)

    as i said before, you will find that the place is vacant enough for your voice[s] to clearly reverberate for as long as you wish.

    enjoy ;)
jm

Re: Re: the Believer / Nobody Laughs... for Yael... (17/10/14 18:56:06) Reply
    Hallo,

    just do hope that cancer is/was just me??

    If so, Healed.

    ...

    ...

    Thank you
    and, may I say goodbye please ??
Yael

studz (14/11/14 11:00:15) Reply
    !since
    hehe no

    comparing parents love for child to

    tootology
    only dapurein. can take any notice of E.T.

    so u choos charity
    thanks
    mean it

    dyed
    nopur
    gater

    comp

    lition

    time
    onemore only
    for
    GB )
    (
ai

debugged (14/11/14 11:24:12) Reply
    Your mercy to

    Recorded
ai

these my three posts (14/11/14 12:08:36) Reply
    are

    exclusively for @ illbran

    many thanks
ai, with heart

Re: studz (14/11/14 15:05:08) Reply
    Just so you know,
    degrading Love
    it's teratology.

    But Mercy on you.
believable

just to poke a little. and since its in the context of the 1979 coda, do you still call iran persia? ;)  (09/10/14 23:52:13) Reply
    What a dumb fuckin thing to say.

    One thing you forget. I was born there. That is my home.

    I will always be an Arab.

    I will never plant bombs. But...

    Jm, so fucking lost amongst the detritus.

    And now we will never be friends. Just like the rest of us.
    Rhymes with Detritus.
illbran

1979 - the land of a thousand guilts (10/10/14 19:35:30) Reply
    thank you for both posts.

    >> What a dumb fuckin thing to say.

    maybe. unless you misunderstood me.
    1979 is a coincidence btw. i really meant the content of the 1979 coda which is about censoring nasty words, i wasnt referring to the revolution.
    but its not just about nasty words, its about the use of language to censor others and yourself. or alternatively to express ones ignorance (preference is something else btw).
    its about the simple fact that the countys name is iran.
    persia? persia is a european fiction.
    persia existed long long ago. and btw, just between you and me, it didnt contain that many arabs as today ;)
    personally i believe that people around here are wearing sunglasses indoors.
    they see shades that simply arent there and on top of that its just plain rude wearing your sunglasses indoors, dont you think?
    call things as they are, even if its uncomfortable. and especially if it uncomfortable [ and especially for your own point of view].

    >> I will always be an Arab.

    you wrote something quite different not so long ago. but ok, you arab, me filthy zionist. nice to meet you. whatever. *shrug*.
    i fail to see how this is linked to persia/iran though.

    >> And now we will never be friends.

    too bad you see it that way.
    btw, you do know that there is an open invitation for you here since way back... right?
    drop in. no ones gonna bite you. unless you ask in local arabic.
    or... go out my front door proclaiming a new caliphate ;)

    >> "Jm, out of the three dozen people that ever read this shit, and the three that ever understand it, why, my brother, oh why, bother?
    >> Pissing in the wind.

    your flattering me or flirting with me? *blush*
    i may be the only fool that actually didnt over analyze it but i do *feel* it every time i read it.
    analyzing fahrenheit is like doing literary analysis on moby dick, id rather chop off my own dick and eat it raw ;)
    example "spoiler" that everyone should be aware of by now: it was a pleasure to burn. == call me ishmael.
    one of ray bradburys favorites was moby dick of course.
    both opening lines are crafted to have pretty much the same impact.
    got tons of em, but you are right, why bother...

    ~

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aeETEoNfOg

    my better half hates this song (and band). no idea why. she says that much like joy division they are "distant". i personally love them. joy division even more.
    distance evokes emotions. imo.


    Shakedown 1979
    Cool kids never have the time
    On a live wire right up off the street
    You and I should meet

    June bug skipping like a stone
    With the headlights pointed at the dawn
    We were sure we'd never see an end to it all

    And I don't even care to shake these zipper blues
    And we don't know just where our bones will rest
    To dust I guess forgotten and absorbed
    Into the earth below

    Double cross the vacant and the bored
    They're not sure just what we have in the store
    Morphine city slippin' dues down to see

    We don't even care as restless as we are
    We feel the pull in the land of a thousand guilts
    And poured cement, lamented and assured
    To the lights and towns below

    Faster than the speed of sound
    Faster than we thought we'd go
    Beneath the sound of hope

    Justine never knew the rules
    Hung down with the freaks and the ghouls
    No apologies ever need be made
    I know you better than you fake it to see

    That we don't even care to shake these zipper blues
    And we don't know just where our bones will rest
    To dust I guess forgotten and absorbed
    Into the earth below

    The street heats the urgency of now
    As you see there's no one around
jm never knew the rules

Re: 1979 - the land of a thousand guilts - are you talking to me? (16/10/14 01:18:56) Reply
    Uh?

    One of the downsides (and one of the benefits) of being a hopeless drunk is that one never remembers what one says this day or the next...

    Let's go though - it's fun! :

    ---------------------------------

    >> I will always be an Arab.

    you wrote something quite different not so long ago. but ok, you arab, me filthy zionist. nice to meet you. whatever. *shrug*.
    i fail to see how this is linked to persia/iran though.


    ----------------------------

    Sometimes I dont make sense. Don't try to understand. Just the ramblings of a drunk. But, my good friend, I do not consider you Zionist scum. I love jewish people. I have always seen you as agnostic/atheist/buddhist, so it would be difficult for me to view you as much. The trouble with you, and me, is that we never sat down and drunk a few beers together. In my old age, you are only one of about 10 people that I would ever want to do this with.


    ----------------------------------
    >> And now we will never be friends.

    too bad you see it that way.
    btw, you do know that there is an open invitation for you here since way back... right?
    drop in. no ones gonna bite you. unless you ask in local arabic.
    or... go out my front door proclaiming a new caliphate ;)

    ----------------------------

    Don't take what i say too literally.

    We have always been friends. We will always be friends. Such is the beauty of our rare relationship. eh, you gotta take the smooth with teh rough, eh? eh eh.

    Didn't know about the invite. sorry.

    But, shukran. Al ham dil allah. Kis a much and alla akhbar to you. ;-)

    -------------------------------


    ----------------------------
    >> "Jm, out of the three dozen people that ever read this shit, and the three that ever understand it, why, my brother, oh why, bother?
    >> Pissing in the wind.

    your flattering me or flirting with me? *blush*
    i may be the only fool that actually didnt over analyze it but i do *feel* it every time i read it.
    analyzing fahrenheit is like doing literary analysis on moby dick, id rather chop off my own dick and eat it raw ;)
    example "spoiler" that everyone should be aware of by now: it was a pleasure to burn. == call me ishmael.
    one of ray bradburys favorites was moby dick of course.
    both opening lines are crafted to have pretty much the same impact.
    got tons of em, but you are right, why bother...

    ~

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aeETEoNfOg

    my better half hates this song (and band). no idea why. she says that much like joy division they are "distant". i personally love them. joy division even more.
    distance evokes emotions. imo.

    -----------------

    Ah ah my bro loved the smashing pumpkins. You just reminded me of the time me and my strict austrian g/f came back from glastonbury. In a flat in Finsbury Park, we had teh tent set up to dry. My bro slept in it. the landlord came round- an indian fella - said - oh no, not good, you must not allow people to park in our living room in tents. He didn't realise the tent was just drying out and that my bro is a weirdo and just decided to rest there for the night.

    I hope he's going to be ok. There's me, abusing my body and my mind and my spirit and all those around me that mean anything to me. He was just starting to get big with the body building.

    Anyway.

    anyway...

    kiss your better half on the cheek for me. And get her to kiss you, for me, in return.

    Because you know that when we meet up, I'm going to give you a big wet sloppy kiss right?


    People just don't love enough.
illbran

Re: to be 17 and crazy... (24/10/14 21:07:00) Reply
    @jm
    im curious as to what end the lecture will [miss]use the book

    Mmh, it was not actually a "lecture", rather a reading.
    I just wanted to know some of the different interpretations there are, just to be prepared for questions.
gs

on a humoros but true note (08/10/14 16:17:34) Reply
    call me illiterate or watever but before you guys mentioned it in this thread, i didn't even know this book exists.
    (though i could evoke some movie with a similar title back in my girlihood)

    interesting enough however, i seem to have been fine while being unaware of it,

    hehehe..
ssimplicitas

Re: on a humoros but true note (08/10/14 20:37:21) Reply
    ah, the movie from Truffaut, no not really, missing the critical moments of the book
dom

critical moments? (10/10/14 19:39:27) Reply
    do tell. im curious. i swear i wont bite. seriously. ill treat your opinions with lots of tenderness and respect. really, no joke.

    i wonder why this particular thread is so "vacant and bored" as opposed to others so full of sh*t (including myself).

    ehem...
jm

Re: critical moments? (10/10/14 21:29:00) Reply
    no, not this way, next week, read the book, see the movie & explain us, why it's right, what i've said above
dom

Re: critical moments? (10/10/14 21:35:58) Reply
    Maybe because almost all of the people above are just smart enough to be afraid to get boring, to others....
Why?

one honest answer. thank you. (n/t) (10/10/14 21:45:06) Reply
jm

Re: one honest answer. thank you. (11/10/14 09:00:02) Reply
    some of us were very young

    some were not, even, born

    when, some, REAL SHIT "was" happening
    (beauty of english vivid past tense or what)

    samaa, commissions, out there, doing something
    for us

    believe or not :)

    there were some legendary things too

    wishsh I were there.....

    or do I :)
being more the "onest" :)

who. not whot. (11/10/14 18:19:08) Reply
    think i'd rather show (you) my pusa
    than my eyes

    chant stand you without shades anyway :)
btw

anyways (12/10/14 05:53:49) Reply
    i also feel that many (if not all here, really) of you "bloody" posters are so erudite, intelligent and good at what you've been doing on here that you can easily work even as professional, paid writers, commenters etc.(if you already don't)

    i really mean this.
    no flattering nor bullshit.

    just thought i should say what i really think.

    thanks
btw

perhaps yet (12/10/14 19:22:01) Reply
    the point precisely is not to be paid for thinking.

    the realms of ''experts'' and their bought-and-paid-for issuances are surely the very Windmills we've been tilting at all this time...

    I should note: I am not anti-capital, nor anti-product. just anti-bullshit and anti-crap re: adverts and the shite products they entice the fool into buying.

    More specifically, rather than improving a shite gizmo, the shitbags that craft a fairy-tale, for loads of money, to entice one to buy the shite product instead of using the same money to improve their crap gizmo.
forseti

and (12/10/14 23:37:41) Reply
    here is again yet another reason to be suspect of the paid professionals producing propaganda er, prose.




    "Both before Hilter and after, Münzenberg’s true role in the world was a closely guarded secret, though in keeping with his particular talent, it was concealed in conspicuousness. His talent was for propaganda, albeit of a special kind. For Willi Münzenberg was the first grand master of two quite new kinds of secret-service work, essential to this century, and to the Soviets: the covertly controlled propaganda front, and the secretly manipulated fellow traveler. His goal was to create for the right-thinking non-Communist West the dominating political prejudice of the era: the belief that any opinion that happened to serve the foreign policy of the Soviet Union was derived from the most essential elements of human decency. He wanted to instill the feeling, like a truth of nature, that seriously to criticize or challenge Soviet policy was the unfailing mark of a bad, bigoted, and probably stupid person, while support was equally infallible proof of a forward-looking mind committed to all that was best for humanity and marked by an uplifting refinement of sensibility.

    To create his networks of fronts and fellow travelers Münzenberg used every resource of propaganda, from highbrow cultural opinion to funny hats and balloons. He organized the media: newspapers, film, radio, books, magazines, the theater. Every kind of “opinion maker” was involved: writers, artists, actors, commentators, priests, ministers, professors, “business leaders,” scientists, psychologists, anyone at all whose opinion the public was likely to respect."
forseti

Thank you! (13/10/14 18:23:30) Reply
    I never knew about this man.

    In return (but only because I read a comment with the term in The Register yesterday):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

    Moles from the regulated industry regulate the industry. Freshly recruited agents are rewarded with overpaid employment in the industry - legally earned.
e

Re: and (19/10/14 13:48:00) Reply
    "It was not until 1954 that Münzenberg’s name resurfaced in any meaningful way, when Arthur Koestler wrote about him in the second volume of his autobiography. Koestler had known of Münzenberg as a young newspaperman in Berlin in the early 1930s, and later worked for him in Paris over a period of about seven years (1933–1940). Koestler was deeply impressed by Münzenberg’s talents as an organizer, publisher, and propagandist, by his ability to generate a seemingly endless stream of newspapers, magazines, and books to support the Communist cause, and by the apparently magical ease with which he set up his various front committees while keeping the Communist role in them virtually invisible. ..."

    The Red Millionaire: A Political Biography of Willi Münzenberg, Moscow’s Secret Propaganda Tsar in the West by Sean McMeekin.

    http://bookzz.org/dl/1047832/e82e6c
like

Re: Re: and thank you , too (25/10/14 19:59:02) Reply
    Another book on the conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

    I will get around to reading them all, but frankly I had to give up nearly halfway through "Black Book of Communism" because it is so horrifying and mind-numbingly descriptive of the terrors and horrors of the communists.

    Still, mustn't let the natural instinct to recoil in horror stop one from persevering through the descriptions of the machinations and rat-fucking dirty tricks contained therein, subverting morality with false narratives and lies.

    So I will give Red Millionaire a read as well, With periodic breaks to de-louse my mind with some Mozart or Bach, some Black Tea with Clover Honey, and pictures of tranquil arboreal bliss.

    It's all just too much to deal with at one go. At least the salifis are honest about their intentions, not like the rot within that the international socialists are.

    All very rational and reasonable with their NPR-intonations of newspeak, I'm sure.
forseti

V for Victory! (06/11/14 18:42:20) Reply
forseti

Re: V for Victory! (07/11/14 18:47:45) Reply
    I think we've lost it. There was little we could do - except svd, who made that open tag at the top of the messageboard and blocked the banner advertisement. And then Insidetheweb folded.

    We had that flash of friendship and fortune and the Web honeymoon. Now most of us have physical lives taking most of the time, and the financial crisis has taken its toll with some, and some have left us for good. And

    So, yes. We'll remember. And then we will go on.
e

Now it's me who is confused (16/10/14 21:45:12) Reply
    Are you talking to me above??

    Also, I don't get your "enthusiasm" here anyway, what it's all about ;)
Why?

Re: critical moments? (12/10/14 17:27:46) Reply
    (since you've probably had something different in mind when posing your question ;)

    ok, let's suppose, no, let's even take it for a fact that the author of the book in question really had something completely different in mind writing this artwork, after all it's him himself who probably should know better (than any of his interpreters or later adaptations)....

    yet, and probably it wouldn't be the first time in history at all, for somebody to, by modifying the existent work of an artist, in fact creates a completely new piece of art.

    (if you get me. just don't take me wrong here please)

    and it's not just me.
    it's croce, i think, who says something along the lines of "to translate (read reconstruct, here) with artistic skill, is to create a new work of art."

    like a hairdresser, whenever touching that hair they (hopefully :) can make a new piece of art, or like a painter...

    after all (croce again, i suppose), "what matters is not what the poet (read book writer) proposes or believes to make, but only what he has actually made."

    ideas are plenty
    and cheep anyway :)

    (and btw,no, still haven't read it myself, but may will)

    greets
reconstructor

especially  (13/10/14 19:39:28) Reply
    when "This film has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit this screen."


















































    hehe
forseti

Re: especially  (17/10/14 21:08:14) Reply
    .. formatted to fit this "screen"...

    aha. like in "screening", right? fit this screening of ours.

    i love such accidentaly-happened double-meaning words.
svd

the telescreen (19/10/14 19:32:06) Reply
    Afterglow

    yes it's not a book

    yes it's an actual commercial

    yes THEY (Phillips) are primary culprits in consumerism.

    yet what an awesome spectacle of light

    the world is big enough to have books and telescreens, digital cameras and analogue film, vinyl records and compact discs. et cetera.
forseti

Re: the telescreen (19/10/14 19:40:02) Reply
forgeti

maybe (11/02/15 22:09:17) Reply
forseti

Soon (12/02/15 19:22:52) Reply
    We go round it above it below it
    We man it pan it crop it
    We ban it speed it stop it
    Accelerate and slow it
    New channel of experience is born
    Soon there will be 3D holographic porn
HIII


come again

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