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If I remember right (13/07/14 15:49:06) Reply
    I too read that Tesla said of himself to be a discoverer rather than an inventor. But that's modesty, and I believe there is philosophy to support me rather than him (because I am less modest than Nikola).

    Natural phenomena are there - either well-known or waiting to be discovered (or, as with commonplace phenomena:) named (because Newton or Galilei surely did not invent gravity).

    I'd say that designing a rotary magnetic field AC electric motor or a high-voltage generating coil are inventions rather than discoveries.

    The empiricists - like David Hume - saaid you cannot really know anything about the world because (IIRC) you're at the mercy of your senses or instruments.

    So there were the analytical sciences

    Immanuel Kant gave a solution to it, and Pirsig delves upon it in the Motorcycle book.

    Ah yes - why struggle with memory when I can link to Wikipedia?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytic–synthetic_distinction
e

Re: If I remember right (13/07/14 19:24:50) Reply
    hi, e :)

    "I'd say that designing a rotary magnetic field AC electric motor or a high-voltage generating coil are inventions rather than discoveries."

    of course they are :)

    just.. before any invention must have been some form of its discovery,
    its possibility, if you like.

    once we have discovered, not invented, say explosive fuel, only then (from this "relative" perspective of course) can we give full rein to our "whims" (like say inventing a five cycle/wheel motor/car or something)
    to boot, even in this process we are experimenting and finding something new as we go rather than "inventing".

    the specific thing with tesla, however, is that the whole "nation" is, methinks, still convinced that its him who *invented* not ac motor or something but no less than electrical current itself :))

    overall i really appreciate very much all you say here, specially that we/science are/is "at the mercy of its instruments", yes!

    thanks and come back soon :)
me

Re: If I remember right (14/07/14 13:57:49) Reply
    in fact, you are absolutely right in all your remarks here, e.
    no bullshit, really.

    i'm aware, myself, I should've been much more pedantic here..
    but my intention was just to, so to speak, put forth the "idea", rather than the facts.
    (i see it, btw, I wasn't completely correct describing that thing even technically, either, sorry)

    you "got" me :)

    but never mind, the idea is still out, that some "patriots" may always see even discovery of radio waves as "invention" :)

    anyway
    thanks again and kind regards
me

i thought no more my posts here.. (15/07/14 16:08:18) Reply
    (and again, nothing personal anyway :)

    but whenever i fracking open my mouth i feel i somehow.. "lose" (hence must "repair" :)

    namely, and in all honesty, now i don't think we can tell or proove for sure the line between when it's (about) 'discovering' something and when it's about 'inventing' it.

    we can get even very partial about it probably, but personally i still would prefer it to be "neither this nor that" for sure..
    (anyway i'm not saying what it really is or could be because I don't know..)

    (all) this may sound "crazy," i know, but..

    be all well :)
me

Re: i thought no more my posts here.. (15/07/14 21:11:06) Reply
    There should not be censorship here. Self-censorship - I know from experience that it applies sometimes - and for the better of all. But it should not apply to guests. The only restriction is the one in the heading - the friends clause.

    There are no infallible people around here.

    No popes.
e

thanks e (16/07/14 17:05:44) Reply
    so i'll need to rethink my "decision"..

    again..

    and again..

    and.. :)
me

Re: i thought no more my posts here.. (16/07/14 17:52:53) Reply
    "now i don't think we can tell or proove for sure the line between when it's (about) 'discovering' something and when it's about 'inventing' it"

    "The exclamation 'Eureka!' is famously attributed to the ancient Greek scholar Archimedes. He reportedly proclaimed "Eureka!" when he stepped into a bath and noticed that the water level rose—he suddenly understood that the volume of water displaced must be equal to the volume of the part of his body he had submerged."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_(word)

    a bit more detailed

    "Archimedes' principle"

    "The most widely known anecdote about Archimedes tells of how he invented a method for determining the volume of an object with an irregular shape."

    " According to Vitruvius, a votive crown for a temple had been made for King Hiero II, who had supplied the pure gold to be used, and Archimedes was asked to determine whether some silver had been substituted by the dishonest goldsmith.[15] Archimedes had to solve the problem without damaging the crown, so he could not melt it down into a regularly shaped body in order to calculate its density. While taking a bath, he noticed that the level of the water in the tub rose as he got in, and realized that this effect could be used to determine the volume of the crown. For practical purposes water is incompressible,[16] so the submerged crown would displace an amount of water equal to its own volume. By dividing the mass of the crown by the volume of water displaced, the density of the crown could be obtained. This density would be lower than that of gold if cheaper and less dense metals had been added. Archimedes then took to the streets naked, so excited by his discovery that he had forgotten to dress, crying "Eureka!" (Greek: "εὕρηκα!," meaning "I have found it!"). The test was conducted successfully, proving that silver had indeed been mixed in.[17]"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes

    I think he also couldnt "tell or proove for sure the line" :)
d

yea (n/t) (17/07/14 06:57:33) Reply
.:)

Re: Re: i thought no more my posts here.. (17/07/14 07:32:42) Reply
    thanks again :)
    yours really a great, analytic mind !

    still..

    let's not forget however,

    we already have/had "it", around us :)

    (the water, the bath, the iron, whatever)

    'it' could be, could be,.. "overlapping".. hidden.. with
    thinking, itself.

    scary.
    or maybe not ;)

    thanks very much again
.:)

still.. :) (20/07/14 22:53:48) Reply
    the three-phase rotating magnetic field, e.g.
    (being attributed to tesla; and being the "father" to all subsequent inventions)
    is, still, by no means an invention
    but "just" a find, discovery.

    it can't be an invention.

    no, even if he'd imagined it, beforehand (which I doubt, btw)
    (because the other things involved there, like say magnetic field, *as such*, being out of his control, only made it at all possible)

    (don't) think about it
    feel it :)

    seems that "the nation" is still
    mistaken.
    hardly was 'he' wrong about himself.

    (and hardly could me be that "bad" myself ;)

    greets :)
me

Re: still.. :) (21/07/14 14:33:51) Reply
    even better to say, imo, trying to make it all more clearer:

    that fact or whatever, that an (electro)magnet rotating in between three live wires, simplistically speaking, is
    a real
    'property' (of 'something')

    rather than an invention.

    can it get something else/more is of course "anybodies guess" ;)

    (but anyway i am not sure that i, we, "need"ed this "shit" any more :)

    so, my side, done.

    kind greets again
me

Re: Re: still.. :) (21/07/14 14:46:36) Reply
    i meant "the fact or whatever that an (electro)magnet ROTATES in between three live wires.." , of course

    but frack it :)
me

Re: still.. :) (31/07/14 10:48:05) Reply
    First time found where?

    IMHO this is an example of "synthetic a priori".

    http://www.teslasociety.com/hall_of_fame.htm
e

Re: Re: still.. :) (01/08/14 20:59:46) Reply
    "unfortunately,"

    your interpretation of that (like mine too, maybe ;) is nothing but
    '(in) hindsight'

    ..

    anyway, first was many things, around him, or us


    (but,
    didn't we say we preferred something else to philosophy :)
me

Re: Re: Re: still.. :) (01/08/14 21:15:53) Reply
    but since i (think) SEE you point..

    so, ok,

    do you mind me saying, instead, it is/was *partly* a shear invention too ;)
me

giving ground further (02/08/14 06:39:32) Reply
    in fact, i DO SEE your 'a priori' point here..

    so, in my 'final' opinion, i don't think that one should ever feel need (unlike myself :) to reason, "speak up" of or post on things being too substantial or something
    (although, you know, there are some other instances or things that i certainly "couldn't" negotiate about this easily :)
me


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