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Re: Re: work and whatnot (06/06/01 04:25:45)
    Hello Calli, I've read your comments and will try to reply to them honestly and thoughtfully.

    i don't think your solutions would hit the heart of the issue which is essentially that democracy breeds materialism (you may quibble whether there is or is not a democracy, but try to be honest in the asessment!). aristocracy fosters and elevates the esteem men have for their own nobility, democracy does no such thing. yet, it can be seen that both in their own way appear to be in error regarding the order they presuppose (who is to say birth in a particular family is anything but abritrary? who can justify the rule of the mob?)

    Well, I should have stated clearly that the solutions I am exploring are for myself only, though I can hardly claim any originality or creative authorship for the answers I arrived at to make my own life more livable. I've been seeking about though for solutions to many problems I have, and perhaps selfishly too, though I have had some positive results from living according to a maxim/mantra such as goes "if I live rightly by myself, I live rightly by others as well".

    Democracy, anarchy, communism, despotism, plutocracy, oligarchy what does it matter? It always comes down to individual responsibility, really, doesn't it? I have seen how the 'american' system taight me to consume, and now I reject that system, but not all it has usurped. Water falls from the sky, Food grows with soil, water and sun, the sun shines everyday, somewhere on the earth. There's plenty of stuff to make shelter out of, for everyone.

    For example, things I find that I probably need to live; good food, clean air, clean water, shelter from the weather, good friends, to have free time and run and jump and sing and laugh and love. I'm reasonably sure that many others enjoy these too. Surely there is more to life than this, though I could concievably live richly on just that from now on.

    Perhaps, indeed, that is my goal.

    In my assessment of what surrounds me, I find a system (of which 'democracy' is certainly a part) which actively maintains momentum by artificially seperating me from the things I feel are necessary to live. I'd call it a plutocracy or scientific-aristocracy or some such, but such definitions are of course also narrow.

    Indeed, I feel that such 'problems' of definition and scope are unanswerable by me alone.

    However, to hide away and pretend I have no input in such an answer is to deny my responsibility, to myself, and to the planet on which I live. Therefore, looking at what I can do, now, not later, is very important to me. I've run out of patience with 'experts' and bureaucrats who are busily preserving the structures they exist in, which are destroying the sturctures we all exist in. I'll brook no delay in opting out of their world.

    "If we keep driving down a particular road, eventually we'll get to where it goes."

    Currently, according to a man I met this winter, one species is extincted per hour. Only humanity is responsible for this. Wheather by 'evolution' or genesis I wes put here amidst the splendor and wonder and terror of life on this planet does not really matter, now does it? Because for damn sure I will not survive the extinction of the web of life. Maybe some would prefer 'the matrix' or to live on Mars, but really I like it here, and there is no reason whatsoever that I cannot live in harmony within the web of life as part of it.

    Everything alive needs food, water and a place to exist. Also most things shit out waste. In the system that was in place on the earth, everything balanced out. Now it doesn't. I don't want to be a part of that imbalance. I no longer have to be either.


    "spirituality" is perhaps the partial solution to the problem of materialism taken to extremes. in other words, people would need to believe that they are not simply body - with limitless appetities. not to say that religion taken to extremes is not its own problem either - a moderate view of politics or moderate _expectation_ from politics perhaps would hold that in times of religious immoderation materialism would be a partial solution - at least if one is concerned with his life in "this" world - inasmuch as it would be difficult to detach from it - and senseless as well.

    I have no comment on religion, there are manifold religions, except that all have ethics which are compatible with sustaining life on this planet.

    perhaps you are optimistic? even if you identify a possible solution to the issues as you see them or to the present "crisis" if you can see it - asking people to reflect on themselves - to TAKE THEMSELVES SERIOUSLY (and, yes, this is an important fact) will not mean much if you hope by this that they will make something of themselves in light of the "revelation" you wish to offer.


    Yes, I am optimistic. I have experienced love and moments of sublime joy in my heart, which I believe are attainable by all. I have seen the beauty of the world from many vantages. I have learned a language to communicate this hope to others, who may listen as they choose. But again, the 'answers' I have found are for myself only, really, for that's whom I have to convince. I do feel though that by so doing, it will prove attractive to others, and them may chose to emulate or innovate such as I am attempting. While not 'libertarian' (or any other label, save human) I dig the concept of freedom, obviously within the socio-linguistic definitions given to me and whatnot, and really think that others are free to chose for themselves. Though I do find that such freedoms do not extend to depriving others of such freedoms. That is oxymoronic. Ergo, clean water, air and food. It's a closed system, when people fuck up the system, they fuck it up for everyone. This is immutable, no matter what one thinks about it. Sorry. If we continue doing what we are doing, we all lose.

    I'm curious, did you, or anyone else, type any of those 'answers' into your google? I'm wondering what you all think about the specific things I mentioned.

    Also, I was surprised, that you answered with such a thoughtful reply, for usually I have the dubious honor of stopping threads dead with my rantings...



    you can count the number of people on your left hand who woudl make something of themselves in light of self-reflection;

    I completely disagree, unless I can start over with my thumb after 5.


    what you will see more often than not is indignation (a sign, of course, that people cannot believe they are essentially vulgar, or living by the standards of convention). what is possible and for all intensive purposes meaningful is if you actually show in what way people desire more than to live "cosuming" or however you would describe the ugliness of the present day - admiration for heroism (for example), or respect for the mind.

    Life is beautiful, and it's hard too. It's time for me to mature into an adult, even perhaps beyond an adult. It's time for my enlightenment, and the ability to act on the evidence before my eyes, and on the feelings in my heart. If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, it's time for me to make a u-turn. That way I still have good intentions under my feet, but I'm headed in the other direction. I'm not going to think outside the box, I'm getting out of the box and never going back. I'll plant some flowers in it. Bury me at sea, I hate that fucking box.

    confirming this confirms something about men which while not "changing" the times - suggests that the times even though impoverished are not the "be all end all" so to speak. in other words, profit i would think is understanding human nature... clean air - has its place i suppose but perhaps not as serious. (i can hear it now of course CLEAN AIR! WE NEED TO BREATH DON'T WE)... with a bit of imagination i think you can see that there are more profound issues at stake.

    Ok, I'm going on the evidence that sometime very soon, humanity is going to break the earth beyond repair. Might take a few hundred more years. Might sort it all out in time too. I cannot continue on the path set out for me by 'experts' and professionals and advertisers and corporations. I choose another way. It's my way, a path lighted by my spirit, which I have every reason to believe is a good spirit. Maldoror I'm not.

    of course, anyone can distinguish between a wish and a fact; even a child

    The fact is that we all can live together on a bountiful, sustaiable, beautiful, peaceful, cruel and unpredictable world, which in case we hadn't noticed, had been happening for a few million years, but now we're fucking it up. We have got to stop fucking it up. Even a child would wish for that.
forseti


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Re: Re: work and whatnot