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whitsun and rainy days (02/06/01 19:03:31) Reply
    Now we have whitsun. But the rainy days are very depressing. No work but cool and rain ..........
    Is this fair?

    I wish the mb happy whitsun.
lola

Re: whitsun and rainy days (02/06/01 19:27:19) Reply
    Thanks, same to you...

    What do you mean by 'no work'?
RH

Re: Re: whitsun and rainy days (02/06/01 20:49:27) Reply
    Here is sunday and monday of whitsun holiday. And holiday with rain - that is very hard. A workday with rain is o.k. of course with a :( face.
lola

Re: Re: Re: whitsun and rainy days (02/06/01 21:32:59) Reply
    I see...

    well, how do you define
    'workday' and 'holiday', may I ask?
RH

Re: Re: Re: Re: whitsun and rainy days (03/06/01 05:39:47) Reply
    On a workday one must work.
    At a holiday one has freely.
    Today Whitsun and I am work must. Inverted world. Naja.

    Lola, what does not please you at the rain?
    Rain is good.
    It washes the dried up blossoms at the trees from.
    It deanses the dust of the streets.
    It drums cozily on the tecto de vitro of the hall, in which I work and it pleases me.
kass

sunshine (03/06/01 06:07:13) Reply
    Yes, all what you say is right.

    But I don´t can go to the garden.
    I don´t can lying in the sunshine.
    I don´t can go to the beer-garden or to the swimming pool.

    And, and, and........
lola

what does not please you at the rain? (03/06/01 18:08:50) Reply
    it make driving from work to home at least 30 min longer :-(
    It does the same driving from home to work, but this i don't care :-)
Laurent

Re: what does not please you at the rain? (03/06/01 19:06:55) Reply
    It does the same driving from home to work, but this i don't care -

    You have a nice job. When I come to late at the work, i must make up these time :(

    It shine that all people have a better job! ;-)
lola

Re: Re: Re: Re: whitsun and rainy days (03/06/01 06:08:47) Reply
    on holidays I can do what I wand to do.

    on workday I must go to work and can not do what I wand.
lola

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whitsun and rainy days (03/06/01 09:15:13) Reply
    Are you aware that only a few generations ago people did not differentiate between work and spare time ?
gs

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whitsun and rainy days (03/06/01 14:15:09) Reply
    What generation do you mean?

    Every generation think other as the generation before. The next difference lie in kind the holiday and the job.

    The generation ago saw a ecclesiastical holiday differently as the generation today. Also the job: A farmer must work on a ecclesiastical holiday when it is harvest-time........ he must a generation ago and he must today
lola

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whitsun and rainy days (03/06/01 12:16:03) Reply
    The aim, dear Lola, is to find your way to a work where your work IS what you want to do (extremely difficult, I know only a single -wondrous- person: Alexander Randolph being able to do that), or, at least, to find a well paid job where you can 'cut out' or, maybe a more precise expression: 'carve out' everyday at least two-three uninterrupted hours that you can use for your own purposes.

    The second aim is easier to grasp as some believe: if you learn in depth the reversing paths you'll soon notice how easy it is to know -im Voraus- "what others expect from you", and how easy it is to deliver -if necessary- das Doppelte, so that noone will ever dare annoy you because you spend time on projects they do not understand anyway... and that time is YOURS, and that's work, I dare say your real work and aim, the very reason you all have ben cocooned from zombitude...

    Oops, I drunk too much Nebbiolo, I better go to sleep in this rainy sunday...

    fravia+
fravia+

well paid job do you can do what you want? (03/06/01 14:45:26) Reply
    I mean, when Alexander Randolph have find a job, where he everyday can two-three hours use for there own purposes he is a enviable man. But i think the normaly people with a normaly job (the german can say "Ottonormalverbraucher) can´t do that. A shop assistent, or a car mechanicer or....or....or

    A job as a manager you can give the staff more work and you have the time to do your own things. Or a person he/she works alone.

    I am a normaly person with a normaly job and i have a chief the look to my work and the time where i work - unbecoming but I like the job an the chief.

    Your other suggestion is very interesting, but I think the most of the people must learn these: im Voraus zu wissen- "what others expect from you".

    But the dangerous is: when you are fast by your work and your chief have seen that, he give you more and more work. At the end the efect is opposite.

    It is not so simple.

    And now - you drunk too much Nebbiolo. I think a glas of champagne for me is very good. But i can not go to bed- many, many work.

    Sleep well fravia+
lola

Should you want to discover... (03/06/01 15:19:04) Reply
    ... a wondrous person and a good friend of mine, you better look on the web for ALEX randolph and not for ALEXANDER randolph, though... :-)

    for instance
    http://www.franjos.de/Autoren%5Cddautd.htm

    Nomonem strikes once more :-)

    Note that he dislikes PC-games and that if you happen to put your hands on some of his board-games (Hepta, for instance) you'r in for a great discovery. Most of them have been published by Ravensburger.

    You can meet him (and often me as well) every year in september an die Essener Spielmesse... a great european event that noone with or without kids should miss.

    F+

    Cannot sleep: my kids want to play "twixt" with me :-)
fravia+

Re: toys trade fair (03/06/01 16:52:26) Reply
    i don't know the one in Essen, i visited once the big one in Nurnberg and learned much about where the money flows. the giant stands of Lego and Marklin for example (with all these beautiful women :)), Lego is money the fathers spend for their children, Marklin is money a father spend for himself.

    There was much to learn, but i can't remember enough, an analysis of this trade fair would be of value in some aspects...
dom

Re: Re: toys trade fair (03/06/01 19:11:36) Reply
    Oh yeah,

    I think Daddy´s have all money for Märklin. The present for childrens are a alibi to can go and see the toys trade fair. :)

    Men´s are people?

    I go to toys trade fair very gladly - all people are children!
lola

Re: Should you want to discover... (03/06/01 20:20:05) Reply
    Please tell me, who had win the "twixt"-game?

    When I must advise, I think -- the kids!

    Alex Randolph is a very very interesting man. Thanks for the adress. At the moment I can say, I know the Play "Tempo kleine Schnecke". It is one of the first play, who children (little children) can learn to bungle. But a good play- you can not compare with a PC-game. A good play it is more, it is a world for itself.

    The Essener Spielmesse, sorry I don´t know. In my list of fairs don´t stand a Essener Spielmesse. When you can give me more dates I can look in my calendar, I don´t want missing a visit of it.

    And now? It is evening. We can drink another glass of champagne. "Prost" Fravia
lola

work and whatnot (04/06/01 16:04:42) Reply
    This is a puzzle whose bounds I am still mapping, but fortunately I have stumbled across some valuable clues:

    What is the definition of work?

    In my American schooling, it was attempted to teach me that I would follow the path of: Elementary school (Kinder-garten - grade 6), Middle school ( grades 7-8), and 'High-school' (grades 9-12), College and perhaps Graduate or Medical, Law, blah blah blah. This would eventually cost my familly and myself around $370,000.00 (!) A considerable ammount of money, but most person's standards.

    I consider this money ill-spent for many reasons, among them that I never learned mathematics beyond algebra, by 2nd grade I was able to read just about anything with the help of a dictionary/thesaurus/adult, and many of the subjects that I was 'taught' were incomplete, illogical, censorial of views that ran contrary to 'pedagogical' views, no matter if these were closer to the 'truth' or could shed light on a subject like History, where there are many disparate and opposing views, that need to be considered together to 'Educate'.

    But the chief complaint I have is that we paid so much for a system that produced in me profound feelings of doubt, self-hatred and fear, which I had not possesed before my introduction to school. The mechanisms of cruelty are manifold and concentrated intensely by the artificial bounds placed on students, as they are graded, sorted, culled, seperated, and alienated. If I hadn't experienced this myself, I'd not believe a word of it. I am still grappling with the effects of this system, in that while I have reversed a goodly part of it's effects on my psyche, I am surrounded by the other people who are products of this system.

    It is a system that teaches that creates and maintains itself on the premise that people need useless things, made in staggering numbers by drones who do not question the necessity of their work, a mass population who is incapable of thinking for themselves, and so has warranted a class of 'Experts' who must think for them.

    Don't beleive me? Come to New York City and see for yourself. I'll be your fearless guide, for though I have found meaningful work aplenty, I still have the freedom to, at any time, change my 'schedule' to accomodate being of service to others in need. In fact my needs are well met in simplicity, not the complexity of commerce that surrounds me.

    I have had to redefine work. I was told for many many years that work meant 'a job' that was 'socially acceptable' and could guarantee 'saftey' and 'profit' and immunity from being responsible for my actions (limited liability). These are all lies, of course, to maintain the pyramid scheme of corporate power in the world I was born into.

    The National Socialists said on the gateway to their 'free enterprise zone' Auschwitz "ARBEIT MACHT FREI" Well, actually no, working for someone lese, so that they profit and you lose (your self, your freedom, your time, your life) will not set you free. The same argument is used by Multinational's as they plunder the poor of the '3rd World' today: "But we are giving them work!"

    But they already had work, to feed themselves and clothe themselves, and culture aplenty, for free. But there is no room for corporate profits in that world, so it is being killed.

    If you think I'm making any of this up, ask yourself why? What profit could I possibly gain by asking people to reconsider the source of their work, except clean air, life and love. If that is an unreasonable profit, then you will not have to attend the 're-education' camps scheduled soon at a theatre near you.

    My partial solutions so far to this puzzle:

    Earthship

    Renewable Energy

    Organic Food Co-Operatives

    Free Software/ Recyclable Hardware

    Anti-Advertisement

    Corporate Charter Revocation

    I am not a 'consumer', I am a 'recycler'.

    I am not a 'taker', I am a 'leaver'.
forseti

Re: work and whatnot (05/06/01 08:34:15) Reply
    It may be my age, but somehow your post opened my eyes. I never knew what it is like to live in a big city in a big country where the schools are designed to make people feel comfortable living in a big country. You gave me a feelling.

    For the big-city dwellers there seems to be much less space than for the small-city people in a scantily populated country. Obedience is not so important with us.

    They say: If you tell a Norwegian and a Swede to jump, the Swede will say: "How high?" and the Norwegian will say: "Why?"

    (Sweden always wanted to be a big power.)
-t

Re: work and whatnot (05/06/01 09:50:15) Reply
    I have always been of the opinion that most of the European school systems are superior to the American one. I have had a good school education and I would at any time send my kids to the same school I went to. I feel I have been given a good education there.

    But when I moved to what used to be the GDR, a little more than ten years ago still considered the enemy (!), I was confronted with the fact that many people here who went to school before the fall of the wall, had different views on some subjects, especially on political and historical events. That opened my eyes and made me aware how much I myself had been influenced by propaganda.
gs

Re: Re: work and whatnot (05/06/01 10:01:05) Reply
    Yes, a valley has always two pages. And only both together determine his validity. ;)
kass

correction (05/06/01 10:02:45) Reply
    shit, i mean taler , not valley. tststs
kass

Ther4e's always two sides to a coin (n/t) (05/06/01 10:07:12) Reply
gs

hmm ....and the life also. (n/t) (05/06/01 10:58:23) Reply
kass

Re: correction (05/06/01 16:26:14) Reply
    shit...kass...u made me laugh this day! :)
jeff

Re: work and whatnot (05/06/01 19:46:21) Reply
    i don't think your solutions would hit the heart of the issue which is essentially that democracy breeds materialism (you may quibble whether there is or is not a democracy, but try to be honest in the asessment!). aristocracy fosters and elevates the esteem men have for their own nobility, democracy does no such thing. yet, it can be seen that both in their own way appear to be in error regarding the order they presuppose (who is to say birth in a particular family is anything but abritrary? who can justify the rule of the mob?) "spirituality" is perhaps the partial solution to the problem of materialism taken to extremes. in other words, people would need to believe that they are not simply body - with limitless appetities. not to say that religion taken to extremes is not its own problem either - a moderate view of politics or moderate _expectation_ from politics perhaps would hold that in times of religious immoderation materialism would be a partial solution - at least if one is concerned with his life in "this" world - inasmuch as it would be difficult to detach from it - and senseless as well.

    perhaps you are optimistic? even if you identify a possible solution to the issues as you see them or to the present "crisis" if you can see it - asking people to reflect on themselves - to TAKE THEMSELVES SERIOUSLY (and, yes, this is an important fact) will not mean much if you hope by this that they will make something of themselves in light of the "revelation" you wish to offer. you can count the number of people on your left hand who woudl make something of themselves in light of self-reflection; what you will see more often than not is indignation (a sign, of course, that people cannot believe they are essentially vulgar, or living by the standards of convention). what is possible and for all intensive purposes meaningful is if you actually show in what way people desire more than to live "cosuming" or however you would describe the ugliness of the present day - admiration for heroism (for example), or respect for the mind. confirming this confirms something about men which while not "changing" the times - suggests that the times even though impoverished are not the "be all end all" so to speak. in other words, profit i would think is understanding human nature... clean air - has its place i suppose but perhaps not as serious. (i can hear it now of course CLEAN AIR! WE NEED TO BREATH DON'T WE)... with a bit of imagination i think you can see that there are more profound issues at stake.

    of course, anyone can distinguish between a wish and a fact; even a child.


    calli~
callimaco

prev. post was my "unfeeling" response to forseti ;) (n/t) (05/06/01 19:53:35) Reply
callimaco

Re: Re: work and whatnot (06/06/01 04:25:45) Reply
    Hello Calli, I've read your comments and will try to reply to them honestly and thoughtfully.

    i don't think your solutions would hit the heart of the issue which is essentially that democracy breeds materialism (you may quibble whether there is or is not a democracy, but try to be honest in the asessment!). aristocracy fosters and elevates the esteem men have for their own nobility, democracy does no such thing. yet, it can be seen that both in their own way appear to be in error regarding the order they presuppose (who is to say birth in a particular family is anything but abritrary? who can justify the rule of the mob?)

    Well, I should have stated clearly that the solutions I am exploring are for myself only, though I can hardly claim any originality or creative authorship for the answers I arrived at to make my own life more livable. I've been seeking about though for solutions to many problems I have, and perhaps selfishly too, though I have had some positive results from living according to a maxim/mantra such as goes "if I live rightly by myself, I live rightly by others as well".

    Democracy, anarchy, communism, despotism, plutocracy, oligarchy what does it matter? It always comes down to individual responsibility, really, doesn't it? I have seen how the 'american' system taight me to consume, and now I reject that system, but not all it has usurped. Water falls from the sky, Food grows with soil, water and sun, the sun shines everyday, somewhere on the earth. There's plenty of stuff to make shelter out of, for everyone.

    For example, things I find that I probably need to live; good food, clean air, clean water, shelter from the weather, good friends, to have free time and run and jump and sing and laugh and love. I'm reasonably sure that many others enjoy these too. Surely there is more to life than this, though I could concievably live richly on just that from now on.

    Perhaps, indeed, that is my goal.

    In my assessment of what surrounds me, I find a system (of which 'democracy' is certainly a part) which actively maintains momentum by artificially seperating me from the things I feel are necessary to live. I'd call it a plutocracy or scientific-aristocracy or some such, but such definitions are of course also narrow.

    Indeed, I feel that such 'problems' of definition and scope are unanswerable by me alone.

    However, to hide away and pretend I have no input in such an answer is to deny my responsibility, to myself, and to the planet on which I live. Therefore, looking at what I can do, now, not later, is very important to me. I've run out of patience with 'experts' and bureaucrats who are busily preserving the structures they exist in, which are destroying the sturctures we all exist in. I'll brook no delay in opting out of their world.

    "If we keep driving down a particular road, eventually we'll get to where it goes."

    Currently, according to a man I met this winter, one species is extincted per hour. Only humanity is responsible for this. Wheather by 'evolution' or genesis I wes put here amidst the splendor and wonder and terror of life on this planet does not really matter, now does it? Because for damn sure I will not survive the extinction of the web of life. Maybe some would prefer 'the matrix' or to live on Mars, but really I like it here, and there is no reason whatsoever that I cannot live in harmony within the web of life as part of it.

    Everything alive needs food, water and a place to exist. Also most things shit out waste. In the system that was in place on the earth, everything balanced out. Now it doesn't. I don't want to be a part of that imbalance. I no longer have to be either.


    "spirituality" is perhaps the partial solution to the problem of materialism taken to extremes. in other words, people would need to believe that they are not simply body - with limitless appetities. not to say that religion taken to extremes is not its own problem either - a moderate view of politics or moderate _expectation_ from politics perhaps would hold that in times of religious immoderation materialism would be a partial solution - at least if one is concerned with his life in "this" world - inasmuch as it would be difficult to detach from it - and senseless as well.

    I have no comment on religion, there are manifold religions, except that all have ethics which are compatible with sustaining life on this planet.

    perhaps you are optimistic? even if you identify a possible solution to the issues as you see them or to the present "crisis" if you can see it - asking people to reflect on themselves - to TAKE THEMSELVES SERIOUSLY (and, yes, this is an important fact) will not mean much if you hope by this that they will make something of themselves in light of the "revelation" you wish to offer.


    Yes, I am optimistic. I have experienced love and moments of sublime joy in my heart, which I believe are attainable by all. I have seen the beauty of the world from many vantages. I have learned a language to communicate this hope to others, who may listen as they choose. But again, the 'answers' I have found are for myself only, really, for that's whom I have to convince. I do feel though that by so doing, it will prove attractive to others, and them may chose to emulate or innovate such as I am attempting. While not 'libertarian' (or any other label, save human) I dig the concept of freedom, obviously within the socio-linguistic definitions given to me and whatnot, and really think that others are free to chose for themselves. Though I do find that such freedoms do not extend to depriving others of such freedoms. That is oxymoronic. Ergo, clean water, air and food. It's a closed system, when people fuck up the system, they fuck it up for everyone. This is immutable, no matter what one thinks about it. Sorry. If we continue doing what we are doing, we all lose.

    I'm curious, did you, or anyone else, type any of those 'answers' into your google? I'm wondering what you all think about the specific things I mentioned.

    Also, I was surprised, that you answered with such a thoughtful reply, for usually I have the dubious honor of stopping threads dead with my rantings...



    you can count the number of people on your left hand who woudl make something of themselves in light of self-reflection;

    I completely disagree, unless I can start over with my thumb after 5.


    what you will see more often than not is indignation (a sign, of course, that people cannot believe they are essentially vulgar, or living by the standards of convention). what is possible and for all intensive purposes meaningful is if you actually show in what way people desire more than to live "cosuming" or however you would describe the ugliness of the present day - admiration for heroism (for example), or respect for the mind.

    Life is beautiful, and it's hard too. It's time for me to mature into an adult, even perhaps beyond an adult. It's time for my enlightenment, and the ability to act on the evidence before my eyes, and on the feelings in my heart. If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, it's time for me to make a u-turn. That way I still have good intentions under my feet, but I'm headed in the other direction. I'm not going to think outside the box, I'm getting out of the box and never going back. I'll plant some flowers in it. Bury me at sea, I hate that fucking box.

    confirming this confirms something about men which while not "changing" the times - suggests that the times even though impoverished are not the "be all end all" so to speak. in other words, profit i would think is understanding human nature... clean air - has its place i suppose but perhaps not as serious. (i can hear it now of course CLEAN AIR! WE NEED TO BREATH DON'T WE)... with a bit of imagination i think you can see that there are more profound issues at stake.

    Ok, I'm going on the evidence that sometime very soon, humanity is going to break the earth beyond repair. Might take a few hundred more years. Might sort it all out in time too. I cannot continue on the path set out for me by 'experts' and professionals and advertisers and corporations. I choose another way. It's my way, a path lighted by my spirit, which I have every reason to believe is a good spirit. Maldoror I'm not.

    of course, anyone can distinguish between a wish and a fact; even a child

    The fact is that we all can live together on a bountiful, sustaiable, beautiful, peaceful, cruel and unpredictable world, which in case we hadn't noticed, had been happening for a few million years, but now we're fucking it up. We have got to stop fucking it up. Even a child would wish for that.
forseti

Re: Re: Re: work and whatnot (06/06/01 07:40:53) Reply
    forseti,

    You Said:
    Democracy, anarchy, communism, despotism, plutocracy, oligarchy what does it matter? It always comes down to individual responsibility, really, doesn't it? I have seen how the 'american' system taight me to consume, and now I reject that system, but not all it has usurped. Water falls from the sky, Food grows with soil, water and sun, the sun shines everyday, somewhere on the earth. There's plenty of stuff to make shelter out of, for everyone.

    I think it matters inasmuch as the opinions you are going to encounter day to day are related directly to the regeme in which you live. And it appears that democracy being essentially mob rule lacks a type of education which would correspond with a sense of "responsibility". Perhaps you don't believe me... The issue is, I think, one of responsibility and education - where responsibility (not per se "decency", or not per se "accountability" in the sense that one can be held accountable for crimes against humanity, or not by holding oneself accountable for ones crimes - since one would not call the action itself responsible but rather a condition of being in the final analysis virtuous or dutiful). In other words, you would have to restore some dignity to the meaning of responsibility by recongnizing that it presupposes education - in other words, (imo) men live according to an opinion about themselves and the world they live in. And education as it is received is primarily guided by the type of regieme one lives in or the authoratative opinion (the opinion which has force behind it); and this opinion is primarily an opinion about justice, or the just order. It is perhaps not an obvious suggestion - since it is difficult to grasp the power one's regieme exerts over men. And much more can be said about it... but this is what I am beginning to suspect at any rate, and it is really just a beginning (if only a defective one).

    You Said:
    Ok, I'm going on the evidence that sometime very soon, humanity is going to break the earth beyond repair. Might take a few hundred more years. Might sort it all out in time too. I cannot continue on the path set out for me by 'experts' and professionals and advertisers and corporations. I choose another way. It's my way, a path lighted by my spirit, which I have every reason to believe is a good spirit. Maldoror I'm not.

    Sure, I wouldn't doubt it. And it is possible that a comet could crash into the earth and obliterate all life (and something akin to this will happen anyway, i.e., mass extinction). Possible solutions abound for this type of thing (very hard for people to reflect on this aspect of nature)... they admire its beauty when outdoors, but do they see that this outward part of nature is really just arbitrary force (take a trip out to sea for a month or two, for instance, and you might find yourself in the midst of a violent storm). sure flowers are pretty, and so also is lightening - or gusting wind. but it is also these things which destroy crops, knock your cottage over, and result in human wreckage. why is the fact that human beings can "partake" in wrecking and killing any different? there is no intent behind this in the outward face of nature, no benevolent spirit, or can you see one? what do you think it means to become angry at men for killing - but not the violent sea? well, for one: men apparently have a respect for justice... whatever that is! i'd like to respond to your other points later... thanks for writing!

    calli~
callimaco

a picture is worth how many words? (06/06/01 19:13:26) Reply
b

Re: a picture is worth how many words? (06/06/01 21:47:10) Reply
    Great Picture
    States and Europe, across the pond, look like Cartagho and Rome across the Med
    Too much light for India as far as I can tell... why?
Lurkerone

Re: a picture is worth how many words? (06/06/01 22:39:23) Reply
    dreaming about moving to antarctica, again...

    calli~
callimaco

.:-) (n/t) (24/06/07 20:20:32) Reply
zzz

Re: Re: Re: work and whatnot (06/06/01 09:23:22) Reply
    This is very nice. I love it.

    So it immediately makes me go (again) to the search engine for Prayer Before Birth by Louis MacNeice. You may remember me quoting him before.

    "I would have a poet able-bodied, fond of talking, a reader of the newspapers, capable of pity and laughter, informed in economics, appreciative of women, involved in personal relationships, actively interested in politics, susceptible to physical impressions"

    http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/maclean/Macneice.html



    "Prayer Before Birth

    I am not yet born; O hear me.
    Let not the bloodsucking bat or the rat or the stoat or the
    club-footed ghoul come near me.

    I am not yet born, console me.
    I fear that the human race may with tall walls wall me,
    with strong drugs dope me, with wise lies lure me,
    on black racks rack me, in blood-baths roll me.

    I am not yet born; provide me
    With water to dandle me, grass to grow for me, trees to talk
    to me, sky to sing to me, birds and a white light
    in the back of my mind to guide me.


    I am not yet born; forgive me
    For the sins that in me the world shall commit, my words
    when they speak me, my thoughts when they think me,
    my treason engendered by traitors beyond me,
    my life when they murder by means of my
    hands, my death when they live me.

    I am not yet born; rehearse me
    In the parts I must play and the cues I must take when
    old men lecture me, bureaucrats hector me, mountains
    frown at me, lovers laugh at me, the white
    waves call me to folly and the desert calls
    me to doom and the beggar refuses
    my gift and my children curse me.

    I am not yet born; O hear me,
    Let not the man who is beast or who thinks he is God
    come near me.

    I am not yet born; O fill me
    With strength against those who would freeze my
    humanity, would dragoon me into a lethal automaton,
    would make me a cog in a machine, a thing with
    one face, a thing, and against all those
    who would dissipate my entirety, would
    blow me like thistledown hither and
    thither or hither and thither
    like water held in the
    hands would spill me.

    Let them not make me a stone and let them not spill me.
    Otherwise kill me. "
e

dirty (08/06/01 01:10:05) Reply
    SOIL-CONSCIOUS AND "BEING NATIVE"
    by Martin Liefhebber
    Closing my eyes I deeply inhale the rich fragrance that rises from the soil. Nudging closer I discern a sweetness of smell that I have rarely experienced. I love to crawl into the rich humus and make my dwelling within it with "The Darkly Splendid Earth" resonating in the background. I open my eyes and realize my head is inches away from a termite nest. This is the home of the genus Recticultermes. Considered a pest by most of us, Dr. Tim Myles from the University of Toronto’s Entomology Lab says: "They are the most useful creatures to clean up the soil and to make compost. They give new life to where there was death. Our rainforests would not exist without them." He has studied the insects for years under a microscope and knows of their usefulness. All we have been told to know is that termites are pests and therefore we must poison them to protect our dwellings.
    Most of us however despise them if even we were aware of their usefulness. Even worms, how many of us are believing they are not creepy. Perhaps, on a rainy day from high above, we think to ourselves; "They dwell where it is dark, dank, the place where we end up when we die, the last place where I want to be now." or perhaps it is just because they are slimy, or that we just cannot understand how they breathe under there because we certainly can’t. Where are their eyes?
    Not wanting to know anything beyond this, we make them other-worldly. Are worms alien beings that can threaten our very existence? It takes a mind to heal a mind. We must open ourselves up to be trained to grasp the nonrational side. We are so skeptical. Because of our rational training, we believe only what is apparent on first analysis. Is there such a thing as reincarnation? Well perhaps. We are, in fact, returned to the earth, the beginning of a new cycle.
    "In the end our bodies are placed in wooden husks and as seeds we are planted. Outside our control the seed and its husk, disintegrates, becomes unrecognizable and grows into other life forms." I wish I could remember who said that.
    Beyond our control nature reacts, reconstitutes itself. In concepts of Deep Ecology every cell of the body is replaced each seven years. A layer of our skin is regenerated and shed every day. The natural order produces waste which is energy for other uses. The skin we shed is dust that settles on our furniture and is, we hope, swept away by the wind so that new life can be fertilized elsewhere by parts of our bodies. In turn we breathe-in dust molecules which could have come from the fossil spores of animals long ago dead.
    Absolute chaos! We don’t know where it is taking us. Where are the boundaries? Our parents tried to impose boundaries. They warned us that playing in the ditch is dangerous and messy. Don’t get covered with muck! Get out from under there. Stay out in the open! Clean your finger nails. Flee from the dark and dank and dirty into the clinically clean, sterile and white. Remain amongst allies. Fear to bow down to mystery. Take flight!
    No. We like it tidy.
    As adults some of us studied "Philosophy of Garden Design." We were asked to admire those French Royal gardens that stretch for miles and miles in a linear direction with everything conforming. We were taught the advantages of design control. To have overview. Not to be amongst but to be above. We were taught of Kings’ Highways, the only route for the King and entourage to travel to assure survival. Straying off the road, amongst the trees was to invite ambush and a quick demise. Kings sacrificed everything in nature to ensure survival of the bureaucratic order.
    Bureaucracies sought victory of architecture over nature. Mussolini said architecture is the art of the state. Fascist architecture also emphasized openness and transparency as to symbolize virtue of morality. The transparency is ironic because fascism needs censorship for it to function. How did it happen to build consensus to fight nazism and fascism. How was it done? Today the questions is how can we fight apathy and paranoia.
    Is this also why forests have been removed because of paranoia, a fear of being ambushed? For generals overview and transparency is essential to win a war. Was the Vietnam war not a war between nature and machine? The west had the computer/machine on its side, with laser guided trajectories for missiles. The other side had the deep jungle. We slashed wildly at the demons, judging them to represent an other worldly - and threatening culture. Afterwards we realized this modern slug-fest had made us fatigued and uncomprehending. Still, with jaws set the corporate leaders ask us again to rally and take out our aggression against nature. They also ask us instead to trust instant gratification and in neurotic gadgetry. They will not stop finding newer and more arguments in attempt to marginalize nature.
    The Western world is burdened by a suspicion of nature as an unpredictable partner; a source to trouble that can only emanate from the deep and mysterious. In the middle ages it was widely believed that diseases such as the plague originated from miasma, the poisonous atmosphere arising from swamps and other putrefying matters. "And today, even though some scientists suggest the AIDS disease has been with us for centuries, many believe that AIDS came from Africa. The same people believe in the existence of extensive jungles where darkness and unknown is rampant and is to be feared. Much of this fear is based on not wanting to know, not being comfortable with reality, not being soil-conscious.
    Kenneth Clark talks about the composer Haydn being a peaceful, spacious, soil-conscious man.2 Reading the words ‘spacious’ and ‘soil-conscious’ peaked my curiosity. Clark’s description is not heard today. I could not let it go: today the word soil consciousness is not a vital character trait which contributes to brilliance in the art of composing music. ‘Soil’, ‘earth’, ‘grounded’, are words that are about being in touch with earth and therefore reality. Was Haydn possibly an environmentalist? Perhaps brilliance in art needed grounded-ness, being part of the soil. Perhaps artists can show the community how to become more soil-conscious. This would be better than having to listen to our leaders and politicians who prefer us to be out of touch, or for the corporate world to seduce us into a culture of escapism. The bureaucratic and corporate coaches us to escape the soil, and to resist becoming native. Hopefully more and more of us see through this guile.
    Native describes an art of becoming. Time, familiarity, habit, ritual, a kind of knowing - all these are part of the process of becoming native. After first wiping out the native nature, the steady stream of European settlers who came to N. America acclimatized to a newly created industrial nature and achieved an appreciation for the white winter world. In the past this happened in spirit through music and folklore. They could get through the winter by growing vegetables in the summer and by building up a stock for the winter until the jigs and reels got the sap going. Now we hope the sun will shine on us somewhere else on this earth. I am curious about the thinking we have become accustomed to: the self-deception mechanism. Today it is the howl of jet engines rushing south which gets people going. Our way of dealing with winters north of the 43 parallel has created a culture of winter alienation. Learning how to cope with it has been the most positive spin on life with it. The best thing to do was and still is to remove yourself from it.
    Morris Berman suggests that "...rather than thirsting for mobility and escapism, immersion in local culture could be a source of nourishment for ongoing life."3 To be yourself instead of wishing to be someone else. To be here instead of elsewhere.
    My local newspaper reports for each of the next three days 83,000 March break travellers are flying south to escape the winter.4 An annual ritual when 250,000 people frantically pack some light clothing, if any, and sun block, tear out of their places, hail a cab to race to the airport, to act out being a native. Of course, when they leave they will all have to come back. Within ten days a total of a half milion bodies were transported from this city alone to provide a respite, to escape a mere ten days of winter. I wonder if this mobilization is on par if not more extensive than the Gulf war effort. Multiply this with say 10 cities similar to Toronto, situated north of the 43 parallel. Some 5 million people migrated from native soil in a desperate attempt to seek a less frozen native soil elsewhere, however temporary. The level of migration is stupefying and it occurs every year a mere 2 weeks before the end of winter.
    Flight from the place you live, as if gasping for air, like fish having to be put back into water within 30 seconds, may of us cannot imaging surviving the winter without the march break in the south - even with massive expense to both the wallet and the atmosphere. flight or fight nature is going to evolve with or without us. The enemy is not a sudden danger of a symbol or personality representing danger. This time the danger has slowly crept in through the back door and has settled in the living room. For many, the danger has imperceptibly penetrated our lives. The enemy is ignorance, indifference and apathy. The kind that produces a leather belt to tighten the bloated stomach while inside the liner is rotting away. This fight is much harder to win. It needs soil-conscious artists and designers to create a better world. We have to have a ground swell of changes which many have been taught to fear and therefore oppose.
    Well, this fear and opposition threatens the loss of the fight. Nature is threatening to shake us off.
    Our training has conned us. The education of the industrialized world has isolated and swathed us from reality and lulled us into a deep sleep. Rip van Winkle did finally wake up to find himself a new person. It takes a mind to heal a mind. Perhaps we need an equally profound experience as Rip to become soil-conscious again. But all of us in the west have been trained to purge the nonrational side, therefore it has been hard for us to trust the vagaries of nature. I know I never understand why my mind wants to shut down, when I think of my heartbeat and that this beat is the pumping of blood through my artieries. This may be the reason shy I want to understand better how my own body works and therefore the earth. I want to be soil-conscious. I am working on it. Martin Liefhebber is an architect working in Toronto, he and partner Myrna Moore are part of a growing group of designers who are interested in integrating nature within spaces we live and work in.

    http://www.eco-art.com/ecoart/articles/martin.htm
b

Re: Re: Re: work and live (10/06/01 02:55:57) Reply
    hey forseti.
    you thoughts are quite frank imo, and i think they deserve a place by ohyeah's hyperbolical or not description of what US is.

    and Both these should not be taken literary, but "what happens to u in such and such place". doesnot need to be US, really.

    i have found it very eye-opening to move for year or 2 somewhere at the opposite pole of opinions, to the place, where the system (or systems, or envinronment, as it is changing radicaly or gradualy sometimes) has tried to convince you it is very BAD.

    be it capitalism, socialism, catolic, orthodox, muslim, far east, dumb uncivilised or very civilised (take aside what meaning is put into "civilized"), very desertly or very populated, money-obseesed or money-not-caring-at-all, very clean and virgin or very dirty and polluted. the other side of the coin they dont want you to see.
    (that last one i dont want to try, i know what it can be). it not only shows u their point of view, it shows you YOUR own point of view over your own values, and whether u have one. it definitely shows your real identity out - best or worst (as i found with a friend whom i knew everyday since 13y old).
    it definitely strips all the moss and glitter and leaves the bare self out - so one can see (if he wants) what he really is, and what the place he comes from is.

    it can be very hard to move back later, though.

    -------

    what is work?
    to me to have _good_ work means to fullfill one's vocation.
    to program grafical and machine interfaces - thats a vocation.
    to listen/choose/classify/enjoy music - thats a vocation.
    to cut wood to heat the home - thats a vocation.
    to clean home or wash dishes - thats a vocation. it was not, now it is.
    digging around the trees at the ranch in the weekend - for some people thats a vocation - for me it is not. not yet.

    the understanding of one's vocation evoluates with age. 10 y ago i couldn't think of playing with tiny children, now i enjoy it (which means its time to have one :).

    if i can't do something that i feel it is my vocation, then it is a job but it is not work. i DO distinguish those things. Most of us there in .bg do.
    it is like "career" vs "work". first one being dehumanized abstract shit, second one being something for yourself AND for others, as much as u feel it.

    ciao
svd

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whitsun and rainy days (03/06/01 19:56:11) Reply
    fravia+ et lola,

    as you might suspect i have given this some consideration, i.e., regarding certain "necessities" - employment _perhaps_ numbering among them. i tend to think that working is only unpleasant when it is not connected to a sense of duty, i.e., under country or god. leisure on the other hand is perhaps best
    suited to those who do not need money (sounds strange doesn't it). since even the gentleman of leisure - unless decadent - are occupied with certain duties which require the admittance of wealth; one can only grasp this if one understand's the difference between the gentleman and philosopher as such.

    and certainly, no one likes to admit that they are motivated primarily by money and power. Its true! many people are like this: they are unwilling to just say they take part in an art for the sake of the money or for the power (or if they do, they rarely really mean it secretly). Take lawyers, for example: They all
    admit that the law all boils down to who ever has the best lawyer and is the best deceiver (i.e., whoever wins had the advantage of the stronger), whose consequence leaves no dignity for their art since all is reduced to chance of being the one who had the advantage. Yet, those who partake in lawyering rarely want to say this applies to them; they assert that they somehow partake in justice or "help the poor,"etc. They never want to see themselves as a part of an order consisting of only power and will. And this is like, eh, the problem, because they instinctively have a respect for their minds (which does not seem to be a source of power or reducible to just body or material), however
    uncultivated or subject to self-reflection. I think this confirms a respect for the mind - but the problem is that most prefer in the face of this problem to go the route of convention; prostituting themselves on the basis of what is essentially arbritrary. iow, acquiring great wealth depends on chance - ALL such advantages depend on chance. Most are only able to quit their dignity for the sake of chance - they cannot properly account for the mind in terms of the conventional order of power and money. the problem is in part thus: Does one take the route of convention and say that all things boil down to power or money or does one break with convention altogether and attempt, then, to ground the mind or what is noble in nature? (assuming, of course, there
    is a ground for man's mind -- that is, it's activity is supported in nature
    rather than a vain activity)???

    anyway i should try and make a point: a few hours alone is not leisure I'm afraid. if you must work you have not leisure. the question of the dignity of the mind (rather than the "self") is no longer relevant inasmuch as the cultivation of the mind requires great rigor. an activity which cannot go depending on rain or sun - since rain or sun are also matters of chance... it simply means that your hapiness is not grounded... should it depend on such viccitudes.

    calli~
callimaco

blah blah blah like \Don Juan woyld say, you talk a lot calli~ and manage to NOT say even a SINGLE thing (11/12/01 06:42:23) Reply
    blah blah blah while the world is bleeding and dyin' all around you
oh yeah..;-)

Mann!Mann! Mann! I get nervous. (n/t) (24/06/07 20:24:31) Reply
z


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